America had not hesitated for so long in joining the allied powers, so difficult for me to fathom how so many Americans were into isolationism, was it apathy? what if we had helped out earlier how many of the 70 million lives loss could we have prevented? how does this this apply to todays dangerous troubled world?

What if the Treaty of Versailles was not so harsh?

After so many US lives lost for European nations secret alliances in ww1, with the result of a peace treaty that was so harsh the US would not ratify it and causing the League of nations to be still born.

Pres. Wilson - "...predict with absolute certainty that within another generation there will be another world war if the nations of the world do not concert the method by which to prevent it."

US public opinion had to be manipulated to get Uncle Shylock to once again pull their cookies out of the fire that they (European nations) had created.

How does it apply to the world today?

The giant was awoken, manipulation of public opinion was chartered and capitalized.

My.02..... I think that the USA could have saved a lot of lives but the problem was average Americans didn't see how the situation affected them. What affect did Tojo or Hitler have on mainstreet USA? I see the same paralells with the Iraq war....( I'm making a comparison to events we all understand and not politics)

Apparently I am not included in “we all” Care to support that statement? As well as your reason for finding it necessary to bring in a current political issue / event to the discussion.

What if’s are so interesting. There are millions of them out there for people to debate and as long as the debate is civil then it can be fun for all.

Here are a few from around the World Wars that are fun to think about. What if Hitler made it into art school? What if France did something about Germany sending troops into the Rhineland? What if Germany did not bomb Coventry that night? What if the US had lost at Midway? What if India had fallen to Japan? What if Germany had made it to Moscow that first winter? What if the US had not figured out how to out fly the Zero?

I love thinking of them, no matter how crazy some of those might look, they really could have happened.


I never had thought about what if, had US entered the war sooner. We were already sending out patrols in the Atlantic and our forces were no match for Japan in the Pacific at the beginning.

Would Germany have invaded Russia if we were involved in the war in 1940? Would US forces been able to stop Germany’s advance into France, Denmark, and Norway? Its hard to say.

Historically speaking. In the mid tolate 30's when war was brewing. There was a trict mind our own business and stay out of another European war. The Atlantic at the time figured to most folks to be a significant barrier. Even as events in 39 and 40 rolled out it was still a prevelant attitude. Of course a few wise heads in the military saw the handwriting and pressed for training of more tropps and modern equipment. Still as can be seen, we were still behind the 8 ball as late as late 1942. So My th8nking is that getting involved in the war from get go would have only resulted in a greater loss of life for the US for very little return in the final outcome.
I think the comparison with the prevailing attitude in Iraq is in error. Comparing it to Viet Nam would be a far better comparison. Everyone was "OK" with them both at first until they started draging on and on and no "positive" results could be seen like retaking of islands in the Pacific or booting the Germans out of North Afrika / Scilily in late 42 into 43

What If..............

When Germany invaded France, they had gone and captured the French Fleet, rather than allowing the French Navy to scuttle the ships. The German Navy, which was in its infancy at the time would have had a huge influx of large ships, that they could have gone and basically captured and control Gibraltar, which would have effectively cut off the Allied Navies from the Mediterranean, thus allowing the German and Italians to have full control over the Med. thus allowing the Germans access to the vast oil fields of the middle east, causing them to be even more of a production giant.

Cutting of the Med would cause the Allied Navies to go all the way around the Horn of Africa to get any troops anywhere near the Med, or the Middle East, and with the Med cut off, it would give the Axis quicker access to the same spots, allowing them to put more boots on the ground in those areas.

With the oil fields under Axis control, you effectively cut off most of the oil supply to the Allied powers, thus weakening the Allies, and strengthening the Axis. Once the Med is sealed off, the Oil fields of the Middle East under Axis control. Then Germany would then have the ability to invade the UK (and lets face it, it would have taken far less German troops to invade the UK, then it did Allied troops to invade Normandy). Once the UK is under German control, even if the US was involved by then (keeping in mind that all of this would have happened before Pearl Harbor), then the US has no base of operations in Europe, thus then allowing Germany to focus their attention on Russia.

Once the UK is under German control, no European bases of operation for the US, there really wouldn't be much left other than that Russians to stop the Germans.

If 2 key things had of happened differently, the Germans capturing and using the French Fleet to seal off the Med. and the Japanese not attacking Pearl Harbor.....things would definitely be much different in WWII, as it would be now.

The Eastern side of the Atlantic would pretty much be in control of the Germans, as well as the Western side of the Pacific in control of the Japanese.

Germany takes Russia, Japan takes China. Most of Africa other than Kenya, Egypt and South Africa would pretty much be under German control.

Most of the Middle East other than Saudi Arabia, Jordan and India would be under German control.

And most of the western and south Pacific other than Hong Kong, Australia and New Zealand would be under Japanese control.

With Germany sharing their oil with Japan, both making them stronger, there is no reason to thing that these British strongholds would eventually give out.

This leaves only North and South America not under either German or Japanese control. Argentina was pro German in WWII, so that would be a base of operations for the Germans to get a foothold in the "Western World"

Not to mention that by then the German Manufacturing machine would still be advancing, and would virtually be intact, some of their more daring designs like a global bomber would be more than just an idea on paper, and would give the German's the ability to strike into North America if need be.

Yes this whole time the US would still have the ability to mass produce aircraft, tanks, ships, etc, etc. However with no place to bring them to, they would have been relegated to the defence of North America, and in all likelyhood, the entire defence of the western world would have laid on the shoulders of Canada and the US.

I know there is a lot of what if there, but its conceivable if just 2 things had of happened differently.

what if the US had M1A1's in WW2? 100 of them could have destroyed the entire Panzerwaffe in a month....And then annihilated all of the Red armor the next.

That is a new one, about capturing the French Fleet. It would have certianly given the Germans much needed ships, but what about crews for those ships? I agree adding the French Navy to the German Navy would have been a monster help, but with all of those ships they might have had a manpower problem.


Not attacking Pearl Harbor would have kept the US out of the war a little longer, but sooner or later Japan would have needed to attack the US if not just for the Phillipinnes. Maybe it would have been better to attack Pearl Harbor and also the Panama Canal. Cut the canal for a year and the US Navy would have been hurt. Ships would need to travel much farther to reach the Pacific. Germany U-boats could have helped thin down the US fleet as it traveled farther to reach the Pacific.

Don't forget that besides Argentina there was also the French portions of South America that Germany could have used as a base in the Americas. They also had plans to invade the Azores and Canary Islands to give them advanced bases in the Atlantic. If that was done I can only guess Iceland would have been on that list as well.

This scenario about the French fleet was actually played out in reality. The French Atlantic fleet did go to Oran and was subsequently bombed by the British in July 1940. Previous agreements between the French and British prior to the fall of France over the fate of the fleet fell through. Here is a small article on it.
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In July 1940, after the Hitler–Pétain armistice, the British government gave a six-hour ultimatum to French ships at Oran. They were offered, but rejected, conditions which were intended to prevent Germany and Italy from using them. A British battle squadron under Admiral Somerville attacked them, assisted by aircraft. One French battleship was sunk and another damaged, one battle cruiser was damaged, and two destroyers and a seaplane carrier were set on fire and sunk. There were only slight British casualties. The Pétain government broke off diplomatic relations with Britain as a result of this action.
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During the 1930's there was a strong Neutralist thought throughout the US. We didn't want to get involved in an European war like we did in 1917. Interesting both FDR and Churchill were among those who had gotten US involvement in WWI.
US frustaration with the Japanese war in China was building up culminating in to embargo of startegic war supplies to the Japanese. To a country without a native supply of iron, scrap metal is a startegic supply. More concerns were building up over this part of the world, especially after the Rape of Nanking by the Japanese.
Its just like in the 1970's when Jimmy Carter banned the export of IC's to the Soviet Union. We were 20 years ahead of the Soviets in Integrated Circuits, but they had the edge on us in Vacuum tube tech. We gave up on Vacuum tubes. People laughed at Carter saying we stopped the Soviets from having hand held calculators! A pilot defected to the West landing his MiG 25 in Japan. On examination it was found that some of the IC's aboard it were made by Texas Instrument. Maybe Jimmy Carter read his intelligence reports?

Mike T.