History Club
Military history and past events only. Rants or inflamitory comments will be removed.
Hosted by Frank Amato
kriegsmarine
UNITEDSTATESNAVY
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Posted: Monday, December 03, 2007 - 03:57 PM UTC
what if?..........Goering had not been such a moron and had not opposed the Reich from building an aircraft carrrier force? he believed that the landbased warplanes would suffice, what say ye? obviously the best officers were in the german navy!
m4sherman
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Posted: Monday, December 03, 2007 - 04:26 PM UTC
Both Hitler and Goring did not understand naval power very well. Still, given the lack of a good access to a safe ocean front it would have been difficult to deploy carriers effectively. Now, if the U-boats were able to hunt under radio silence, just listening for orders instead of having to contact home base so often, that would have helped their effectiveness just a bit.

At this time most naval officers were big guns men in all navies. The Japanese, even after Pearl, still regarded the battleship as the primary weapon.
UNITEDSTATESNAVY
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Posted: Monday, December 03, 2007 - 05:26 PM UTC
First purpose designed aircraft carrier IJN Hosho 1922, 1923 HMS Hermes and previous to this the USN dabbling in warship launched aircraft, the germans had about 35 years to get a clue and never did...interesting! the U boats were very formidable and yes I do wholeheartedly agree that checking in with command was certainly a hindrance.The IJN carriers downfall was lack of radar? I am proud to have served in the 6th fleet..what an honor.
goldenpony
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Posted: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 - 01:35 AM UTC
I don’t think Germany ever got the concept of a surface Navy. Since they were pretty much bottled up by the British Islands it was hard for their big ships to get out in the open sea and take advantage of their technology. The U-boats were finally able to get into their bases in France and expand their operations.

Even if they had a carrier or two, they would have had a hard time getting out of their bases in Germany or Norway. It is very true about what was said about the U-boats only listening to orders instead of always having to report in. I guess the German’s for about radio tracking. Look what happened to the Bismark after she sent in a long radio message.

I think if Germany had spent time working on a true heavy bomber and their U-boat fleet it would have been better than a carrier. Heck for that matter if they had worked on expanding the range of their fighters in 1939 and 1940 that would have helped as well.


UNITEDSTATESNAVY
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Posted: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 - 05:48 AM UTC
did not realize how long they had been bottled up in the northsea ports...guess they were restricted by the WW1 treaty, the british must have been very vigilant in having a superior navy going back quite away.A lot of what ifs? do change the course of history, sure glad the germans are on our side for now.
goldenpony
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Zimbabwe
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Posted: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 - 06:51 AM UTC
German ships did slip out into the Atlantic prior to the start of the war, but they were limited. The channel is not good for submarines to transit and it was mined rather quickly after the start of the war. The GIUK gap is pretty easy to patrol and bottle up ships. The Bismarck almost slipped through, but we all know the end of that story. Of every surface combatant in the Atlantic I think only the Prizn Eugen made it to the end of the war.

The U-boats were their best weapon in the Atlantic. They used them to great efficiency until the British figured out how to track them and sink them. Had Germany waited to start the war like was the original plan no telling how strong her navy would have been.


UNITEDSTATESNAVY
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Posted: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 - 03:19 PM UTC
prince eugen sunk in 46 in atomic bomb test..what a waste of a fine ship.
m4sherman
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Posted: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 - 03:27 PM UTC
I read that the ship survived the blast and had to be sunk by gun fire. It was a waste for all the ships invovled, not to mention the radiactive islands that couldn't be sunk. Live and not learn.