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YodaMan
TV, Movies, and Games
Talk about TV, Movies, Gaming or anything entertainment related.
Talk about TV, Movies, Gaming or anything entertainment related.
Hosted by Jim Starkweather
Episode II conversation - with spoilers!
YodaMan
Member Since: February 21, 2002
entire network: 1,561 Posts
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Posted: Friday, May 17, 2002 - 12:57 AM UTC
Hello all. It's pretty easy to tell that there's a lot of Star Wars fans on the site. So, I figured it's time for an Episode II forum where we talk about everthing we saw in the movie. For those of you who haven't seen the movie yet, there will be discussions about plot lines. If you don't want to spoil all the surprises that the movie has to offer, please don't read.
Remember, I warned ya!
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YodaMan
Remember, I warned ya!
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Just a test to see if the post is long enough to shield the spoiler content...
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YodaMan
GunTruck
Member Since: December 01, 2001
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Posted: Friday, May 17, 2002 - 02:13 AM UTC
Not really a spoiler here:
How's about Christopher Lee's performance as Count Dooku / Darth Tyrannus!?! He was pretty good in the role. I thought he was "elegantly evil" - and Man - Yoda's Padawans really learned to kick some butt didn't they! Yoda must have been some teacher. It was also great to see him (Christopher Lee) on screen again - and in a movie with this kind of widespread appeal.
Also - noticed how gaunt and drawn Senator Palpatine looked 10 years after The Phantom Menace. Great character development and continuity there too...
Gunnie
How's about Christopher Lee's performance as Count Dooku / Darth Tyrannus!?! He was pretty good in the role. I thought he was "elegantly evil" - and Man - Yoda's Padawans really learned to kick some butt didn't they! Yoda must have been some teacher. It was also great to see him (Christopher Lee) on screen again - and in a movie with this kind of widespread appeal.
Also - noticed how gaunt and drawn Senator Palpatine looked 10 years after The Phantom Menace. Great character development and continuity there too...
Gunnie
YodaMan
Member Since: February 21, 2002
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Posted: Friday, May 17, 2002 - 02:28 AM UTC
I thought Christopher Lee did a great job! When I first heard he was going to be some semi-evil jedi, I thought any saber battle with him was going to be slower - he does look old. But that was not the case at all! He did a great job with the saber Vs. Yoda!
Palpatine did look pretty good. (old?) Of course, I wonder how much of it is from aging and how much of it is from the dark side of the force... Which brings me to a question: Are Darth Sidious and Emper- oops, senator Palpatine really the same man? It's obvious they are, but I find it hard to believe that Yoda or the other members of the Jedi Council would not sense him. Now for my point: I think Senator Palpatine is a clone of Darth Sidious. Anyone else here have thoughts along this line?
YodaMan
Go Clones!!!
Palpatine did look pretty good. (old?) Of course, I wonder how much of it is from aging and how much of it is from the dark side of the force... Which brings me to a question: Are Darth Sidious and Emper- oops, senator Palpatine really the same man? It's obvious they are, but I find it hard to believe that Yoda or the other members of the Jedi Council would not sense him. Now for my point: I think Senator Palpatine is a clone of Darth Sidious. Anyone else here have thoughts along this line?
YodaMan
Go Clones!!!
staff_Jim
PublisherMember Since: December 15, 2001
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Posted: Friday, May 17, 2002 - 03:05 AM UTC
YM,
That's an interesting idea. I was thinking about his origins after seeing the film too. Where did Palpatine learn to use the force? Who was his master? Probably someone now dead. Interesting though. I really love how Lucas was able to use the same actor from Ep V and VI.
Was anyone else just a "tad" disappointed that 30 or so Jedi were overcome by the Trade Federation forces?? They had to be rescued by Clone Troopers....how embaressing.
Better than being rescued by Ewoks I guess!
Jim
That's an interesting idea. I was thinking about his origins after seeing the film too. Where did Palpatine learn to use the force? Who was his master? Probably someone now dead. Interesting though. I really love how Lucas was able to use the same actor from Ep V and VI.
Was anyone else just a "tad" disappointed that 30 or so Jedi were overcome by the Trade Federation forces?? They had to be rescued by Clone Troopers....how embaressing.
Better than being rescued by Ewoks I guess!
Jim
Phantom
Member Since: April 13, 2002
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Posted: Friday, May 17, 2002 - 03:08 AM UTC
"There are always two, a Master and an Apprentice" -one of the few times Yoda didn't use Yodaspeak. We didn't see Darth Maul's replacement in this one, or did we? Remember Anikan and Palpatines conversation in his chambers. I really like the way they are aging Palpatine into the role of the Emperor - fairly subtle so far. As to who his Master was, that's a good question, and maybe one that will be answered when the Jedi realize the full extent of the treachery. Palpatine must have been mastered by one of the Sith, and infiltrated the Republican Senate, somehow masking his true self.
Yoda said several times that the dark side is clouding things, but if they're able to be that close to Palpatine and not know his true intentions, then they really are blind. In fact the Jedi are so blind that they only see what he lets them see. The end of the Jedi has already come, they just don't know it.
Cristopher Lee was pretty good, I really liked the design of his lightsaber - it really is an 'elegant weapon', as Obi-Wan put it. I do wish his name didn't rhyme so easily with poo-du, or that his Sith name wasn't so close to tyranasaurus.
I loved the Yoda fight scene, felt it was a little overdone, but loved it anyway.
Here's something fun to do - watch the first conversation between Obi-Wan and Luke again, and count all the lies and half-truths that Obi-Wan tells. It's kinda funny.
-Paul
Yoda said several times that the dark side is clouding things, but if they're able to be that close to Palpatine and not know his true intentions, then they really are blind. In fact the Jedi are so blind that they only see what he lets them see. The end of the Jedi has already come, they just don't know it.
Cristopher Lee was pretty good, I really liked the design of his lightsaber - it really is an 'elegant weapon', as Obi-Wan put it. I do wish his name didn't rhyme so easily with poo-du, or that his Sith name wasn't so close to tyranasaurus.
I loved the Yoda fight scene, felt it was a little overdone, but loved it anyway.
Here's something fun to do - watch the first conversation between Obi-Wan and Luke again, and count all the lies and half-truths that Obi-Wan tells. It's kinda funny.
-Paul
GunTruck
Member Since: December 01, 2001
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Posted: Friday, May 17, 2002 - 03:10 AM UTC
Yes, I think that Senator Palpatine and Darth Sidious are one in the same. A Dark Lord as powerful as he can easily cloud himself from the rest of the Jedi. It seems historically that the Jedi could never pierce the veil of the Dark Side and discover the motivations of the Sith until the Sith made their appearance and smacked them upside their heads.
I also think that Palpatine is consumed by the Dark Side - literally - and that is why he appears the way he does. As he becomes more powerful, so does the power consume him. I think Palpatine here is the original - and will eventually clone himself - as happened in the Expanded Universe stories - but isn't a clone presently. If so, then he would have made his move long before fomenting the Trade Federation's move on Naboo.
Darth Sidious was Darth Maul's Master, that is clear however.
Another thought that supports your premise is the fact that the cloned body of the Emperor was "burned out" quickly in effort to harness the Dark Side. Paplatine must have been burning some serious midnight oil in the 10 years between TPM and ATC - so, perhaps, the Kamino cloning operation is more meaningful than just a mysterious Jedi-connected move to build an Army of the Republic. Maybe the Jedi who contracted the original batch of 'Troopers used here 10 years prior to ATC was indeed a clone - Darth Sidious.
My problem with this hypothesis is that the Kamino state that accelerated clone growth from incubation to development took 5 years. Jango Fett's clone (Boba Fett) was 10 years old at the time of ATC. There doesn't seem to be a way to fit a clone of Darth Sidious into the presented timeline...
Gunnie
I also think that Palpatine is consumed by the Dark Side - literally - and that is why he appears the way he does. As he becomes more powerful, so does the power consume him. I think Palpatine here is the original - and will eventually clone himself - as happened in the Expanded Universe stories - but isn't a clone presently. If so, then he would have made his move long before fomenting the Trade Federation's move on Naboo.
Darth Sidious was Darth Maul's Master, that is clear however.
Another thought that supports your premise is the fact that the cloned body of the Emperor was "burned out" quickly in effort to harness the Dark Side. Paplatine must have been burning some serious midnight oil in the 10 years between TPM and ATC - so, perhaps, the Kamino cloning operation is more meaningful than just a mysterious Jedi-connected move to build an Army of the Republic. Maybe the Jedi who contracted the original batch of 'Troopers used here 10 years prior to ATC was indeed a clone - Darth Sidious.
My problem with this hypothesis is that the Kamino state that accelerated clone growth from incubation to development took 5 years. Jango Fett's clone (Boba Fett) was 10 years old at the time of ATC. There doesn't seem to be a way to fit a clone of Darth Sidious into the presented timeline...
Gunnie
YodaMan
Member Since: February 21, 2002
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Posted: Friday, May 17, 2002 - 03:15 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I wasn't disappointed. Considering they were outnumbered by probably a ratio of at least 20:1. You're probably thinking,' why didn't they use the force to push a path through the droids to an exit?' Well, there's lots of speculation about that kind of thing. The leading thought is that a Jedi can only use the force so much at a time. Why did Yoda go back to the cane after whooping Dooku's butt? Why didn't Obi use the force to run really fast get back to Qui-Gon on Naboo as he did in the beginning of Ep I? (during the Duel of the Fates) I guess that they have to use thier abilities to anticipate and block dozens of laser blasts at the same time - it just gets exhausting after a while. Was anyone else just a "tad" disappointed that 30 or so Jedi were overcome by the Trade Federation forces?? They had to be rescued by Clone Troopers....how embaressing.
Those clone troopers were really impressive though... The gunships, the walkers. That FX scene right after the Federation ball-ship crashes was amazing! (with all the dust)
YodaMan
YodaMan
Member Since: February 21, 2002
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Posted: Friday, May 17, 2002 - 03:21 AM UTC
Quoted Text
My problem with this hypothesis is that the Kamino state that accelerated clone growth from incubation to development took 5 years. Jango Fett's clone (Boba Fett) was 10 years old at the time of ATC. There doesn't seem to be a way to fit a clone of Darth Sidious into the presented timeline...
Point!
Do you remember if the Kaminos said Boba was a completely unaccelerated clone? Or was he just accelerated to the age of 10? I remember the prime minister (coulda been the other one - hey, an excuse to see the movie again!) saying that Jango requested an unaccelerated clone for a son... or something along those lines.
The Palpatine debate is also a heated one I share with my brother
YodaMan
GunTruck
Member Since: December 01, 2001
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Posted: Friday, May 17, 2002 - 03:21 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Was anyone else just a "tad" disappointed that 30 or so Jedi were overcome by the Trade Federation forces?? They had to be rescued by Clone Troopers....how embaressing.
Better than being rescued by Ewoks I guess!
Thank GOD the Ewoks weren't employed in the rescue! Actually, I wasn't disappointed at all - it was great to see 'Troopers cloned after the greatest Bounty Hunter in the Galaxy actually go out there and kick some Droid butts. The recloning of a clone degrades the "performance" of the suceeding clone - hence the relative buffoons employed to bolster Palpatine's Galactic Empire. At least we got to see the Jedi and the 'Troopers at their best, in comparison to the later stories. We all thought Luke had grown immensely and was pretty good by the time he faced Vader the second time above Endor - but this movie showed how far the removed he was from the skill of the Jedi at their best.
I thought these 30 Jedi Masters were great in light of overwhelming odds.
What I found interesting was Yoda returning to the walking stick after burning up the screen in the duel with Darth Tyrannus. What was up with that!?!
Gunnie
GunTruck
Member Since: December 01, 2001
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Posted: Friday, May 17, 2002 - 03:29 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextMy problem with this hypothesis is that the Kamino state that accelerated clone growth from incubation to development took 5 years. Jango Fett's clone (Boba Fett) was 10 years old at the time of ATC. There doesn't seem to be a way to fit a clone of Darth Sidious into the presented timeline...
Point!
Do you remember if the Kaminos said Boba was a completely unaccelerated clone? Or was he just accelerated to the age of 10? I remember the prime minister (coulda been the other one - hey, an excuse to see the movie again!) saying that Jango requested an unaccelerated clone for a son... or something along those lines.
The Palpatine debate is also a heated one I share with my brother
YodaMan
Not in the movie - but in the novelization, the Kamino relate to Obi-Wan that Jango Fett was adamant about letting Boba develop "naturally" without the acceleration process. Boba Fett was the most "pure" of all that batch of replicants. Boba "grew up" in a normal span of time, and Jango raised him as a son and successor. Boba Fett was, and did, develop into a brilliant child - not quite like the persona presented on the screen. Boba Fett would not giggle in glee when blasting and bringing Obi-Wan to the deck like in the movie - for it was the logical outcome of his father's superior skill and training invested in him that produced the result. Boba Fett, even at the age of 10, knew he'd already surpassed Jango Fett in some areas. Jango Fett knew this too.
Gunnie
YodaMan
Member Since: February 21, 2002
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Posted: Friday, May 17, 2002 - 03:34 AM UTC
So the thing about my theory with the cloned Sidious is this: Boba is 10 in Episode II. That would mean he was created around the time of TPM. That makes me think that the Kamino cloners have been around long enough to make a clone of Palpatine. Maybe, maybe not.
This speculation is one of the most fun parts of waiting for Episode III to come along...
YodaMan
This speculation is one of the most fun parts of waiting for Episode III to come along...
Quoted Text
Did you see my post 4 posts above? (or #7 down from the top...)What I found interesting was Yoda returning to the walking stick after burning up the screen in the duel with Darth Tyrannus. What was up with that!?!
YodaMan
GunTruck
Member Since: December 01, 2001
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Posted: Friday, May 17, 2002 - 03:40 AM UTC
Quoted Text
So the thing about my theory with the cloned Sidious is this: Boba is 10 in Episode II. That would mean he was created around the time of TPM. That makes me think that the Kamino cloners have been around long enough to make a clone of Palpatine. Maybe, maybe not.
This speculation is one of the most fun parts of waiting for Episode III to come along...
Quoted TextDid you see my post 4 posts above? (or #7 down from the top...)What I found interesting was Yoda returning to the walking stick after burning up the screen in the duel with Darth Tyrannus. What was up with that!?!
YodaMan
Yeah - we were thinking the same thing! In fact, the whole audience gasped, asked "what's up with that!" and chuckled to when he went back to that pronounced limp and walking stick after handing his former Padawan his lesson.
I got another goodie for 'ya! My wife noticed this at the end of the movie - so I gotta see it - I wish I could take credit.
She asked if I noticed that Padme Amidala was pregnant at the marriage scene(s) wrapping up the epilogue montage. I honestly wasn't even looking - but she was - and that's what she saw!
Gunnie
Phantom
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Posted: Friday, May 17, 2002 - 03:41 AM UTC
What was the name of the Jedi that originally contracted the clone army - Siphideus - pretty close to Sidius to me. He contracted this army, that the Jedi council knew nothing about, and it's ready, guess what, right when they need it.
Now of you're on the Jedi council, you would have to extrapolate that Master Siphideus foresaw the need for this army and for some reason contracted it without consulting the council. Best guess is the fear of traitors in their midst.
But if you can make the Jando Fett - Master Dooku connection, then you can surmise that the original contractor of the clones was Sidius acting as Siphideus, creating an army that would be ready for a planned future battle. A Battle that would shatter the Republic, and still leave him in command of whatever army 'wins' the war. Palpatine/Sidius literally cannot lose.
I'll go with the 'can only use the force for a short time' answer regarding Yoda and his cane. Wielding the force takes a lot of concentration, and it's just easier to use his cane than to summon the force every time he wants to walk down the hall.
-Paul
Now of you're on the Jedi council, you would have to extrapolate that Master Siphideus foresaw the need for this army and for some reason contracted it without consulting the council. Best guess is the fear of traitors in their midst.
But if you can make the Jando Fett - Master Dooku connection, then you can surmise that the original contractor of the clones was Sidius acting as Siphideus, creating an army that would be ready for a planned future battle. A Battle that would shatter the Republic, and still leave him in command of whatever army 'wins' the war. Palpatine/Sidius literally cannot lose.
I'll go with the 'can only use the force for a short time' answer regarding Yoda and his cane. Wielding the force takes a lot of concentration, and it's just easier to use his cane than to summon the force every time he wants to walk down the hall.
-Paul
Phantom
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Posted: Friday, May 17, 2002 - 03:47 AM UTC
Wow this is a fast thread today!
Pregnant at the wedding? Didn't notice, I'll have to look closer next time.
Speaking of little things to notice - I mentioned this to Yodaman in a PM - did you hear the Imperial March (Vaders Theme) way down low after he returns from eradicating the Tuskan village? Listen really close, and I swear you can hear Vaders raspy breath during that scene as well. It's right when he arrives back at the Lars farmstead and they come out to greet him.
-Paul
Pregnant at the wedding? Didn't notice, I'll have to look closer next time.
Speaking of little things to notice - I mentioned this to Yodaman in a PM - did you hear the Imperial March (Vaders Theme) way down low after he returns from eradicating the Tuskan village? Listen really close, and I swear you can hear Vaders raspy breath during that scene as well. It's right when he arrives back at the Lars farmstead and they come out to greet him.
-Paul
YodaMan
Member Since: February 21, 2002
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Posted: Friday, May 17, 2002 - 03:49 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I got another goodie for 'ya! My wife noticed this at the end of the movie - so I gotta see it - I wish I could take credit.
She asked if I noticed that Padme Amidala was pregnant at the marriage scene(s) wrapping up the epilogue montage. I honestly wasn't even looking - but she was - and that's what she saw!
That must've been the one scene in the movie where I wasn't staring at Padmé!
Phantom, the mystery of the jedi who authorized the clones is just that. A mystery. The council members obviously think everyone who's been on the council was a 'good' jedi. So, to have a Sith Lord in thier midst is almost unthinkable. To paraphrase Ki-Adi-Mundi,' Dooku is a (idealist or something), not a murderer'.
But, as the Little Green Guy said, 'Hard to see, the Dark Side is.'
YodaMan
GunTruck
Member Since: December 01, 2001
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Posted: Friday, May 17, 2002 - 04:07 AM UTC
Another interesting tidbit: noticed how Yoda commented on how arrogant and overconfident the Jedi had become in their ways - while looking back at Master Mace Windu? Not that, I'm sure, he was implying Shaft (shut your mouth) was the overconfident one with his purple lightsabre!
I found it interesting because the term "Padawan" was more often used by a Master to his Apprentice as a dig or a slam. Note how violently Anakin reacted to it and took it as Obi-Wan putting him down, and how Yoda used it when dueling with Dooku - and it keeps reoccuring in the storylines elsewhere.
Perhaps it is this arrogance and overconfidence that blinds the Jedi to the Sith. The Jedi did themselves in - the Sith only took advantage of it. If Planet Kamino didn't appear in the Jedi Archives - then obviously it did not exist! It helped drive Anakin over to the Dark Side, it probably contributed to Qui-Gon's challenging of the Jedi Edicts like his former Master Count Dooku did before he voluntarily left the Jedi Order. And it probably affected Obi-Wan's curious flirtation with what's "true" and what's a "falsehood".
Gunnie
I found it interesting because the term "Padawan" was more often used by a Master to his Apprentice as a dig or a slam. Note how violently Anakin reacted to it and took it as Obi-Wan putting him down, and how Yoda used it when dueling with Dooku - and it keeps reoccuring in the storylines elsewhere.
Perhaps it is this arrogance and overconfidence that blinds the Jedi to the Sith. The Jedi did themselves in - the Sith only took advantage of it. If Planet Kamino didn't appear in the Jedi Archives - then obviously it did not exist! It helped drive Anakin over to the Dark Side, it probably contributed to Qui-Gon's challenging of the Jedi Edicts like his former Master Count Dooku did before he voluntarily left the Jedi Order. And it probably affected Obi-Wan's curious flirtation with what's "true" and what's a "falsehood".
Gunnie
GunTruck
Member Since: December 01, 2001
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Posted: Friday, May 17, 2002 - 04:10 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Speaking of little things to notice - I mentioned this to Yodaman in a PM - did you hear the Imperial March (Vaders Theme) way down low after he returns from eradicating the Tuskan village? Listen really close, and I swear you can hear Vaders raspy breath during that scene as well. It's right when he arrives back at the Lars farmstead and they come out to greet him.
I thought I did - but I was wondering if that was the rasping of a Tusken Raider too. That wouldn't make sense to include in the score, so I pondered if it was a harkening to Darth Vader indeed.
Gunnie
Phantom
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Posted: Friday, May 17, 2002 - 04:17 AM UTC
They are truly blind to the dark side then.
The way they reacted meant that there was indeed a Master Siphideus at one point - but he died ten years ago - oddly enough about the same time the clone army was started. It would be interesting to hear the cirumstances of his death. There are a couple of possible scenarios - Siphideus was ordered by someone to commision the clone army, somehow caught wind of the ultimate plan and was eliminated, or Siphideus sniffed out Palpatine/Sidius and was killed, then Sidius posed as Siphideus and commisioned the clone army from the Kaminos, or Siphideus turned to the dark side, and ordered the clone army before faking his death to the Jedi. Or you could go really wacky and suggest that Siphideus, Sidius and Palpatine are all the same person, and is somehow disguised from recognition by the Jedi.
Enough of that, I'm starting to make myself dizzy.
I was watching Padme' through the whole movie( ), and don't remember her looking pregnant at the end. I'll have to look closer this time. :-)
-Paul
The way they reacted meant that there was indeed a Master Siphideus at one point - but he died ten years ago - oddly enough about the same time the clone army was started. It would be interesting to hear the cirumstances of his death. There are a couple of possible scenarios - Siphideus was ordered by someone to commision the clone army, somehow caught wind of the ultimate plan and was eliminated, or Siphideus sniffed out Palpatine/Sidius and was killed, then Sidius posed as Siphideus and commisioned the clone army from the Kaminos, or Siphideus turned to the dark side, and ordered the clone army before faking his death to the Jedi. Or you could go really wacky and suggest that Siphideus, Sidius and Palpatine are all the same person, and is somehow disguised from recognition by the Jedi.
Enough of that, I'm starting to make myself dizzy.
I was watching Padme' through the whole movie(
), and don't remember her looking pregnant at the end. I'll have to look closer this time. :-) -Paul
YodaMan
Member Since: February 21, 2002
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Posted: Friday, May 17, 2002 - 04:29 AM UTC
Interesting observations Gunnie, Phantom. I like how there's a lot of unsolved mysteries at the end of this movie - it'll make Episode III that much harder to wait for.
Speaking of the Imperial March. Gunnie, did you get the soundtrack yet? After seeing the movie, I can tell you that most of the music on the CD is the same as it was in the movie. That's a good thing.
YodaMan
Speaking of the Imperial March. Gunnie, did you get the soundtrack yet? After seeing the movie, I can tell you that most of the music on the CD is the same as it was in the movie. That's a good thing.
Quoted Text
Well said Gunnie! This is one interesting conversation between Star Wars Geeks, eh?Perhaps it is this arrogance and overconfidence that blinds the Jedi to the Sith. The Jedi did themselves in - the Sith only took advantage of it. If Planet Kamino didn't appear in the Jedi Archives - then obviously it did not exist! It helped drive Anakin over to the Dark Side, it probably contributed to Qui-Gon's challenging of the Jedi Edicts like his former Master Count Dooku did before he voluntarily left the Jedi Order. And it probably affected Obi-Wan's curious flirtation with what's "true" and what's a "falsehood".
YodaMan
Phantom
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Posted: Friday, May 17, 2002 - 04:34 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I found it interesting because the term "Padawan" was more often used by a Master to his Apprentice as a dig or a slam. Note how violently Anakin reacted to it and took it as Obi-Wan putting him down, and how Yoda used it when dueling with Dooku - and it keeps reoccuring in the storylines elsewhere.
Yes, it is a very clear class distinction, almost like calling them a 'child' or 'boy' or 'insignificant'.
Quoted Text
Perhaps it is this arrogance and overconfidence that blinds the Jedi to the Sith. The Jedi did themselves in - the Sith only took advantage of it. If Planet Kamino didn't appear in the Jedi Archives - then obviously it did not exist! It helped drive Anakin over to the Dark Side, it probably contributed to Qui-Gon's challenging of the Jedi Edicts like his former Master Count Dooku did before he voluntarily left the Jedi Order. And it probably affected Obi-Wan's curious flirtation with what's "true" and what's a "falsehood".
Very good point - I at first took the 'does not exist' comment as just an illustration of a librarian stereotype, but when put in the context of the Jedi run library - "Only a Jedi could erase the records from the database" - it really does point to the arrogance of the Jedi. They became too powerful for their own good. If they don't know about it, it simply doesn't exist. Draw that parrallel to the treachery going on in the senate. They have become so reliant on the Force to show them the way, that they don't really see things that are right in front of them. If they were only to open their eyes, and do a little detective work, they would see Palpatine for who he really is. But their trust in the Force has essentially blinded them.
- Glad to know I wasn't the only one who noticed the breathing - it was very subtle, but quite clearly there.
-Paul
GunTruck
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Posted: Friday, May 17, 2002 - 04:46 AM UTC
A thought towards some TMP detractors who couldn't stomach the "super-kid" Anakin Skywalker.
Noticed all those cute kids who helped Master Obi-Wan find his wayward planet during training with Master Yoda? Darth Vader winds up (allegedly) destroying all the Jedi in his rise - wonder what fate awaits these tykes - or would the Jedi Council be wise enough to spirit some away to safety like was done with Luke and Leia when they were born. Interesting to have some around for Episode VII. What if one of them is a red-haired female named Mara Jade...
Gunnie
Noticed all those cute kids who helped Master Obi-Wan find his wayward planet during training with Master Yoda? Darth Vader winds up (allegedly) destroying all the Jedi in his rise - wonder what fate awaits these tykes - or would the Jedi Council be wise enough to spirit some away to safety like was done with Luke and Leia when they were born. Interesting to have some around for Episode VII. What if one of them is a red-haired female named Mara Jade...
Gunnie
Phantom
Member Since: April 13, 2002
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Posted: Friday, May 17, 2002 - 05:41 AM UTC
Technically they're not Jedi yet, but mere Padawan - as has been woefully pointed out to young Anakin - but I doubt that would make much difference to Vader in his rage.
I'm guessing that some of them would be spirited away, but I doubt we'll ever get cinematic confirmation of that. I'm primarily a film guy, haven't read any of the novels, so I don't know who Mara Jade is - I'm guessing another Jedi rising from the ashes of the Empire.
My only real problem with Anakin was the acting. I do think they could have done a better job revealing some sort of Force connection. His skills came across as little more than unusual mechanical aptitude and dumb luck, rather than unharnessed supernatural power.
What did you think of Obi-Wan? I think he physically resembles a young Alec Guinness remarkably well. His speech patterns aren't quite the same - but perhaps I'm getting nit-picky.
-Paul
I'm guessing that some of them would be spirited away, but I doubt we'll ever get cinematic confirmation of that. I'm primarily a film guy, haven't read any of the novels, so I don't know who Mara Jade is - I'm guessing another Jedi rising from the ashes of the Empire.
My only real problem with Anakin was the acting. I do think they could have done a better job revealing some sort of Force connection. His skills came across as little more than unusual mechanical aptitude and dumb luck, rather than unharnessed supernatural power.
What did you think of Obi-Wan? I think he physically resembles a young Alec Guinness remarkably well. His speech patterns aren't quite the same - but perhaps I'm getting nit-picky.
-Paul
GunTruck
Member Since: December 01, 2001
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Posted: Friday, May 17, 2002 - 06:12 AM UTC
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I'm guessing that some of them would be spirited away, but I doubt we'll ever get cinematic confirmation of that. I'm primarily a film guy, haven't read any of the novels, so I don't know who Mara Jade is - I'm guessing another Jedi rising from the ashes of the Empire.
Mara Jade was also known as "The Emperor's Hand". She is arguably the most popular character in the Expanded Universe stories. Mara Jade worked directly for the Emperor - sort of like Darth Maul was dispatched by Darth Sidious to "take care of business" in TMP - except she was more ruthless and quite adept in the Force it turns out. So strong in fact the lure of the Dark Side didn't really hold sway on her, so strong was her internal will and drive that she pursued her own course in events, though dedicated to serving the wishes of the Emperor.
When the Emperor was destroyed, she set her sights on getting Luke Skywalker in revenge. The Emperor, though loathsome, did give her a sense of purpose and belonging. She encountered Luke on a couple of occasions and was not able to vanquish him. She became intrigued - and perplexed.
Eventually, Mara Jade became enamored with Luke - though he fell for her from Jump Street. They became uneasy allies, then friends, then partners, and eventually got married. She bore his son - Ben - later on.
The Expanded Universe stories aren't strictly canon, so to speak, but she is such a popular character it would almost be a sin not to bring her into the movie's canon later on in VII, VIII, and IX.
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My only real problem with Anakin was the acting. I do think they could have done a better job revealing some sort of Force connection. His skills came across as little more than unusual mechanical aptitude and dumb luck, rather than unharnessed supernatural power.
Heh heh - Jake Lloyd was rather "wooden" wasn't he! I thought Jack Johnson in Lost in Space made him look like a cardboard stand-up in comparison - and he was flat too.
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What did you think of Obi-Wan? I think he physically resembles a young Alec Guinness remarkably well. His speech patterns aren't quite the same - but perhaps I'm getting nit-picky.
I had to get used to seeing him as Obi-Wan in TMP. It's like them introducing a young Indiana Jones or Han Solo to us for the first time - just takes a bit of getting used to. I like Ewan McGregor in the role now - he made it his own. Speech patterns, heh heh. Remember the overemphasized Millennium Faalcoon from ST: IV - that was a crack-up!
Gunnie
staff_Jim
PublisherMember Since: December 15, 2001
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Posted: Friday, May 17, 2002 - 06:31 AM UTC
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What I found interesting was Yoda returning to the walking stick after burning up the screen in the duel with Darth Tyrannus. What was up with that!?!
Gunnie
My interpritation of that was that Yoda in some ways is like a superhero. When we saw him pull aside his cloak and ignite his mini-lightsaber it was almost like Superman riping of his shirt and you seeing the "S". Notice how Dooku was taken aback that Yoda could even absorb and deflect his force lightning? Then he was even more surprised that Yoda even "had" a lightsaber. I think Yoda uses these assumptions about his size to throw off his enemies. That is why after the battle he basically went back to being Clark Kent. Ok...a really wise and small Clark Kent.
Jim
staff_Jim
PublisherMember Since: December 15, 2001
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Posted: Friday, May 17, 2002 - 06:33 AM UTC
Quoted Text
What was the name of the Jedi that originally contracted the clone army - Siphideus - pretty close to Sidius to me. He contracted this army, that the Jedi council knew nothing about, and it's ready, guess what, right when they need it.
-Paul
Paul,
I think you may be on to something with this track. But keep in mind that Palpatine was also a Senator from Naboo....so one would assume he had to have come from there at some point. The mystery continues...
Jim
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